Dave Burke : Online Community and Social Business Specialist

Will talk about Community Server for food

This is the post I promised when I moved to BlogEngine.NET on where my head's at with Community Server, so listen up.  It's been six weeks since I began marketing myself as a freelance .NET developer focusing on Open Source alternatives to Community Server.  Faithful to that change in focus I instituted a self-imposed gag rule on Community Server.  Since transitions in brand and expertise from one platform to another take time, Community Server has continued to be my bread-and-butter.  I'm a blessed nerd with great projects, even better clients, and cool Community Server development to do every day.  It's killing me in some ways not to be blogging about Community Server, but I learned a long time ago that I have to be led by my principles, whether on the surface those principles seem to be an economic death wish or not.  Sticking to principles always wins in the end, if not we at least have to give them the chance to Place or Show.

The truth is I'm still as big a fanboy of Community Server as I've always been.  I enjoy working in a framework written by developers who I think are the very best in the business.  And being one of the few freelance Community Server developers out there who isn't serving The Man has its advantages.  I'm very popular and since leaving Telligent in April 2007 have had more work than I can handle.  In spite of that success I don't want to be doing this for the long run and here is why.

Community Server is now "Corporate Server."  At $5000 per license, Community Server coding is somebody's day job.  No one gives a shit about Community Server because no one feels they're a part of something.  I was Telligent's first Community Evangelist, now they're hiring Corporate Evangelists.  The community around Community Server was once a vibrant place, with developers around the world feeling they were members of an extended product development team, building great add-ons and blogging about the cool Community Server stuff they were doing.  Tell me, when is the last time you read a blog post about Community Server?  Other than here, that is?  And written by someone not on the Telligent payroll?  The "community" in Community Server is dead.  Stick a fork in it.

As for the chain of events that moved me to focus my energies on Open Source alternatives to Community Server, it all began when my sister wanted an online community to promote her quilting business.  (The site's online but I'm not ready to showcase it for you.)  I started theming a fresh copy of Community Server 2008 for her, of course.  I own several CS Professional licenses, after all, two that I purchased myself at $2500 a pop and two that I received as a CS MVP.  While theming the CS2008 site I started thinking about all of the other sisters out there who wanted to create a quilting community.  They could never pay $5000 for a Community Server 2008 license.  My sister sure couldn't.  No, with Community Server, the Everyman's dream dies here.  A year ago you could have given it a go with a $400 Small Business Community Server License, but the same software now costs you over 10 times that. Sorry, Charlie, Telligent wants tuna that tastes good. 

The easiest thing in the world for me would be to continue enthusing Community Server Joy on this blog and detail my Community Server Development Day, promote myself as an eager and able expert ready to help your [medium-to-large-sized] business with your next Community Server customization project.  Instead I'm going with what I think is morally right, not financially expedient, and change horses in the middle of the stream.  Being the Community Server Fanboy and Expert I am, heck yeah, I'll consider taking on your Community Server project.  You'll love me and the site will rock.

Just don't expect me to talk about it.

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Posted on 8/4/2008 10:48:51 PM by Dave Burke
Categories: Community Server
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Comments (11) -

8/5/2008 2:03:06 AM Permalink

Hi Dave,

I really appreciate you posting this. I always value your opinion and have waited to hear about your motives for the change.

My company is a small development and consulting shop, we have many software communities that are built on CS. I've loved CS. It's been a great thing to work with and out plans have always been to stick with it. However, the decision is now basically being made for us to find something else. We just can't afford it anymore. Like you, I've been a long time fan of CS since I started with Rob's ASP.NET Forums, Scott's .Text, and Jason's nGallery since before there was a Telligent. I've rooted for Telligent to be successful since the beginning. I liked those guys and loved their open source contributions for the community. I feel like maybe they are too big for companies like mine now. I am a small fish getting pushed out to make room for the larger whales. It's too bad, because if it were up to me, I'd stick with CS for the long run for the communities my company builds and the ones we build for customers. But hey, I'm not Microsoft. My customers are not companies like Dell. I just can't afford the licenses any more. The "community" that made community server great is being boxed out by their corporate customers, I guess. I suppose I would maybe do the same thing in their shoes. Who knows.

Thanks for the post Dave.
-Ryan

Ryan Farley United States |

8/5/2008 6:54:33 AM Permalink

Honestly I wouldn't recommend CS to anyone any longer.
Look at the quirkiness of the official Msft sites running the new versions. We need something more scalable for the ASP.NET communities, especially with a forum package that works.
Telligent seems to be embarrassing us.
(Compare community features with vBulletin v3.6)

Mark Wisecarver United States |

8/5/2008 8:02:16 AM Permalink

Dave,

I appreciate your openness and the risks you are taking to stand by your principles.  Like most others I to have stopped recommending Community Server.  
My work, as of late, has really focused on Non Profits and of course most can not begin to justify the cost of CS.  Telligent has not made the product and more attractive with special non profit pricing.  They don't grant licenses like some of other non profit friendly companys do; like, Google, Salesforce, and Volusion.  
So, my new CS installs are done.
Thanks for the well worded and concise summary of the demise of CS and the great community I was once a part of.

Tim

Tim Laughlin United States |

8/5/2008 12:10:44 PM Permalink

Ryan, thanks for saying what I was trying to say, only better than I did.  Yeap, you go back as far as I do, I know because I've been subscribing to your blog since then!  You're wrong about one thing though, I don't think you would be doing the same thing...

Mark, yes, hopefully we'll continue to see good progress in the Open Source .NET environment so CS Forums is no longer the only game in town.

Tim, one of the things I miss about that community was seeing your great avatar all of the time.  I still smile when I think of it. Smile

Dave Burke United States |

8/6/2008 11:04:47 AM Permalink

Hey, I'm happy to see you'll be working on Open Source options - like some of your other readers, I work in the NPO/NGO world where $5000 licenses are not viable. Nor are they scalable when we want to encourage others to dive in! Go GO, Dave!

Nancy White United States |

8/6/2008 11:20:23 AM Permalink

Thank you, Nancy.  Your promotion of Open Source alternatives to your large community constituency means a lot.  I'm looking forward to your new book, btw!  Maybe I'll get lucky and you'll be able to sign my copy.

Dave Burke United States |

8/6/2008 1:17:19 PM Permalink

Dave,

It was a very interesting post! I published my own perspectives as well:

nayyeri.net/.../

Keyvan Nayyeri |

8/6/2008 2:03:03 PM Permalink

Thanks, K-man.  Commented on your post. Smile

Dave Burke United States |

8/7/2008 2:35:18 AM Permalink

Hi Dave !

I'm an old community server enthusiast, but I must admin that this project is not as glorious as before.

The .net world still asks for a real open-source (for good practices purpose), free (for evangelism purposes) and community oriented community platform (means CMS, Wiki, Forums, Blogs).

There are some tools for each functionality (as blogengine for blogs), but it's missing a "centralizing" project.

How to install a new community without having to create one skin/template for each product used ? ASP.NET Providers are a good start in a lot of aspects...

It's stil an open question for me, and the community is missing a central location to speak about all of these (open proposition to create one ? Laughing)

styx31 France |

8/7/2008 6:50:59 AM Permalink

Styx!  You don't have to tell me you're an old community server enthusiast because of course I already know that. Smile  But a good point of reference for those who might not.  I don't want to alarm you, but you read my mind about the Open Source alternative to CS.  And you're absolutely right!  Since I recently began marketing myself as a .NET freelance developer focusing in Open Source online communities, I better have a plan, and I do.  I haven't gotten off my butt to make it real yet.  The "centralizing" project is the key, like you said.  Great minds...

I look forward to communications and collaborations with you on this very topic (to be articulated and realized soon) in the months ahead.

Thank you for stopping by!

Dave Burke United States |

8/16/2008 5:02:16 AM Permalink

Not seeing any viable .net alternatives, I've gone the other way and started to build my latest client sites with Joomla (PHP). I've been impressed with the level of support in the community and the literally thousands of add-ons available. I still keep my original site with CS because I already have one disastrous system switch from Snitz to CS, and the forums were only just recovering when we "upgraded" to CS 2008 and Google/Yahoo/et al LOST our homepage (and still can't find it).

If/when you find something better, please let us all know. Telligent doesn't care about the little guy anymore.

Nate United States |

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